True seeing

[Bounty Hunter]

This is totaly unfair. To have true seeing see thru invisibility spells is one thing but to have it see thru hide and move silently is totaly unfair to rogues. No point in taking those skills then.
Set the helm price much higher or give an only rogue used dispelling item.
Mages for example stuck up elemental shield, use true seeing and cast time stop and then follow up with bigbies hand on me even when I´m in hide mode with really high hide and move silent skills. So mages have a way to attack me. But if I attack them elemental shiled kill me before I kill them. So if mages and clerics are gonna have an upper hand with true seeing items then rogues should have a dispelling item too.

[Almuric]

The arrows, bolts and bullets with dispel on them were mis-priced badly. That will be fixed. And yes, True Seeing will be changed.

[Bounty Hunter]

But what about rogues that don´t use ranged? When you have a team mate that is mage, cleric or archer it is ok but when alone it is not fun to try and hunt full buffed mage. :D

[Almuric]

I cant make everyone happy Bounty. Sorry. :(

[Bounty Hunter]

Ok. No probs. :P
Nah, seriously it is cool. We will find a way to get those buffed chars.
Nothig is better the when you find a mage resting. Best disspel and it is free.

[Genocide]

I hear talk about True Seeing. Changing it or something. If you do change it, there will have to be a long look at what you wish to do with the ability Hide in Plain Sight. IF you leave that ability alone. Will be a lot of abuse with the changed True Sight, Rogue/Paladin/shadowdancer substitute Paladin for Cleric, Monk, Fighter or Barbarian. That mages or archers or fighter classes cannot target. Only true guys that have even a chance against them are rogues or rangers. Spot and Listen MOSTLY Listen Skill.

Plus if you edit true seeing, you are going to have to combine see invisibility and ultravision (the spell is darkvision in toolset) AND give +10 search. If you want to do the spell right.

BUT you would STILL have to have high listen to see HIPS users. No clerics or mages or druids will be able to see them. Maybe have a chance seeing people in stealth..if they casted clairvoyance too. Note, even with high spot and listen and no true sight, a rogue will on be partially visible...might even blink out of your sight sometimes. HIPS..the guy is gone.

OH well, the choice is still yours to make. Test it out with monster with no true seeing in its skin. ...give it spot and listen bonus that most classes would have. Not rogues or rangers. Make a SD and attempt to kill the monster. Bet you erasure of your best PC char, the monster can't see you. Better yet, give it see invis spell too and a little more spot and listen to simulate equipment that PCs might buy...It still won't see you.

[Bounty Hunter]

I agree with you Geno but with true seeing as it is there is no point in taking any hide or move silently skills. For a rogue to have any chance agaisnt mage he need to sneak up, knock the mage down ad use his sneaks as quick as he can. But as a rogue stand still in hide mode a mage see him with help of the true seeing a long distance away. When I fight before I even get close to any mage I get 2-3 hands casted on me and then everything is over. A mage can easily take on 4-5 rogues with combined true seeing and bigby hand. Now for mages that take the ture seeing spell it is totaly diffrent. If they want to "waste" their spell slot for true seeing spell then they should benefit from it.
But to have a helm that cost 25k and have true seeing on it is just totally unfair. And the helm don´t even need to be equiped to use the spell.
Rogue that is visible to mage have no chance at all cause of the low saves. So if mages have all those nice hold spells then why not give rogues chance to hide from them.

I agree totally about hide in plain sight and I said it before. That is the most annoying skill in PVP server and I see it just as another way to brake no running rule and get away with it.

This is a though one for you Al and Im really glad that it is not I that need to make this decision. :D

[Almuric]

Well since we cannot rescript HIPS then it will probably come down to the following choices:

Leave TrueSeeing As-Is and Leave the Helm As-Is

Leave TrueSeeing As-Is and Remove the helm from the mod- only casters would get trueseeing

Modify TrueSeeing and allow shadowdancers

Modify TrueSeeing and ban shadowdancers

Suggestions anyone?

[Genocide]

Banning a class is the easy way out. Mod true seeing so it gives +20 spot and listen and see invis. Test it out in a test module by giving a monster the spell and only that spell. then try to sneak around it as a rogue with max hide and move silent or as a shadowdancer with HIPS.

[Bounty Hunter]

Like I said, it is really a tough one Al.
My suggestion would be remove the helm and keep the rest as it is. Mages get the spell so if they want it they can take it. Shadosancers can hide in plain sight and if someone want to play a char that everyone will complain about then let them.
If we look at it from "real life" point of view then it is right. Rogues will use their sneaks to kill their enemies. Mages can cast the spell so if smart they will use it to help them. Paladins and clerics have good buffs so even if they get sneak attacks on them it wont matter much (only annoying thing is HIPS). And fighters and barbarians are muscle force. It is totally unfair to give them a spell that take only advantage a rogue against them have.
But again I play rogues so maybe I´m not giving any chance to other classes here. I know that I will not use HIPS but others will. But I still think that it is unfair that someone can spot me on the other side of arena. I saw mages that don´t bother with true seeing casue they have the helm. So all they need to do is cast the hand and let others take care of me. When you play a rogue idea is to stay hidden and attack the enemy while he is weakened from other fight. But with everyone having true seeing that will never happen. And we all know that a rogue vs melee char (no matter what health the char have left) will alweys lose.

And I´m writing esseys again. My vote is to leave it as it is but remove the helm.