We all have problems...Mine turn to issues.

[Fiendhand]

Al, I love you for that XP for monsters thing... I was going to suggest something like it. I feel we Need DM events. Sure, killing other players is fun and whatnot, but for a change of pace we could have both opposing teams contesting for a cash bounty on some creature's head. Just an idea, and it needs some work...But its out there now...

As for scripting Knock Down and Improved Knockdown to work on fixxed intervals...I'm apprehensive on that issue. You've heard my points in game, but i'll post them here anyway... Everyone complains about being Knock Down spammed now...Forget the fact that if the mage were to be able to cast anything the melees would be blasted with fireballs or some other massive damage Area of Effect that does 6d6, etc damage. Forget the fact mages also get Damage Shields, Concealment spells, Damage Reductions, and their own line of KnockDown spells. Yes, there is a HP differential. 1d4 vs 1d10 per level...But that hardly matters when the fighter is being Haste-Blasted with high damage spells. The level eight fighters can fall in a single round to two fireballs...In fact, if they didn't have CON bonuses...A level 11 fighter could fall as well.(Max Fireballs, taking the 5 fire resist into view.) If not, you could always cast fireball twice over again the next round.Next, i read somewhere that someone said that casting PK is just a mage using their endowed skills.KD is an endowed skill as well, besides the mages should have no excuse, especially wizards. No one is barring them from putting points into Discipline, and there are discipline gloves for sale.Granted, they could stand to be greaters, but, hey, that doesn't matter to me. Also, you can't hit a mage while he's running and the first thing a mage does when confronted by melees is run to get spell room. They can't be hit while running, and by the time you get up to them if they run right..You are out of attack of opportunity space, so you don't get that free attack. Which brings me to my next issue.


The walking while dazed issue NEEDS to be addressed. Nothing like dying to a dazed person because they walk around, preventing you from attacking them until the daze wears off..Or that classic walk around while dazed and rest of the team storms in scene...Then they have to nerve to say they aren't running because you can't run while in Daze..So its 'walking away', not 'running away'. Nothing irks me to a greater degree than this and the KD issue. They are trying to bend the rules to their advantage, and it sucks. When i'm dazed i just stand still. I know i'm going to die.


*sigh* sorry about this all you Administrators, but...I needed to get that off my chest. If i see Knock Down and Improved Knock Down nerfed and nothing done about Phantasmal Killer, Finger of Death, Wierd, etc. I'm gone. Some of you may say good riddance, some may not. Others may not care at all.No one cares about a single player. Anyway, just delete my characters if you aren't going to do anything about the spells and just nerf Knock Down. I'll know whats going on. Ciao for now.

-Drakefiend

[Bounty Hunter]

I was not there when you talked about KD and IKD so I don´t know what is happening but no way that you will nerf KD or IKD.
That is our only protection agaisnt mages and their high lvl spells.
My rogue too have only chance to win if he KD an opponent. Fighters have better ab then rogues so there we lose but if I kd you then I get sneaks too so in my eyes it is even.
I am agaisnt kd spams. I usually kd an opponent once and hope for the best. I´m trying kd all the time but once I get one hit I usually stop. I said usually casue it all depends on situation.
If I'm facing 2 fighters and 1 mage then it is only natural for me that I will kd spam the mage cause fighters might not hit me and my team will come to help soon.
But to use kd spam like KamaCleric for example (no offence) it is toally wrong. While buffed he use his high ab to knock you down and keep throwing kds with every hit (while on ground you get 2-3 kd hits on you) which make it impossible for you to go up.
So there is a way to protect yourself from KD. Pump discilpine, use concelament spells or knockdown opponet first.
I say don´t even think about changing kd. I´m not threataning anyone but if kd is nerfed so that a weak elf rogue can´t hit enemies then I really don´t see any chance for me to survive.
If you do decide to nerf kd then soooo many other spells need to be nerfed too. If you are gonna make kd use str or dex or any other stats as rool to succes then bigby, horrid, ts and all other higher spells need to be changed same way too.

I don´t like walking while dazed either. It is like using "hide in plane sight" to avoid no running rule. But if you are gonna change so that person can´t move then you MUST lower the time how long it last. A cleric can cast hammer on 4-5 people and alone then cast his spells and hit people until they die. And daze will still last. So change "walking while dazed" but lower the time too.

[Almuric]

As far as KD is concerned I have no problems with it. My solution is simple: Get more AC. I have a mage who stands around with a 33 AC and rains down fireballs. It works really well. Sometimes I get knocked down.....alot of times I dont. Unless I am given a really really good script that changes KD and IKD in a fair way it will not be changed.

So far as phantasmal killer is concerned two things have already been done.
1: The DC on the Fort save has been lowered. There are two saves to this spell, will and fort. If you make the will save the spell does nothing. Fail the will save and you must make a fort save. Make the fort save and you are damaged a little. Fail the fort save and die.
2: Will rings were added to the server. If you don't like dieing from death spells there is an assortment of will and fort rings to be worn. That is as fair as possible. Mages have to be able to kill people too.

[Fiendhand]

Yah, thats how i feel, Bounty. Its nigh impossible for a fighter to survive a fight with a mage, especially since they all stun/paralyze first. If you don't have spot, you're pretty much screwed because of invis. This IS NOT a complaint. Just pointing out a fact. I'm fine with it. Tactics. *shrug*

The other day i was 'KD Spamming' because there was two mages and another guy..forgot what he was. If i hadn't have done what i did i would have died at least ten times more than i did that night.I don't know about anyone else, but i'm not going to die without putting up resistance...Ironic thing was, it was the high level mage that was complaining..My warrior is level 8..He was what, 11-12? So he had, what..50% conceals, etc.. *shakes his head* Half my KDs missed.

However, i'm not suicidal, like that one mage seemed to think...One mage ran into his spawn portal, with the large damage potential aura thing, so i couldn't chase him anymore. Turned around and fireballed me..I couldn't go up there because the portal's damage aura would damage me..So i ran behind a rock.Was all i COULD do. Al saw it, he killed the guy in the portal =/

[Almuric]

So far as walking while dazed is concerned....this needs to be discussed. There is a team of DMs (believe it or not) and we'll discuss this and post a decision.

[Genocide]

AS a player who LOVES magics users, but can play ANY character well, ill shed some light on why these crappy noobie mages are complaining about KD. When I create my mages, for one and this is VERY VERY important. Choose a race that is taller than the average tree stump.

Mages who choose Gnome and Halfling for their races, are GIVING a bonus to their opponents for knockdown. I usually choose a medium size race like Elf, Human and yes Dwarf (it IS a medium sized race) So unless a half orc is attempting KD on me, they have to use their skills to be successful. Mages should also take Discipline and Tumble EVERY time they can. Wizards actually make the best magic users cuz if Int for spells and skill points and more feats and earlier spells at levels than sorcerers. Only advantage over wizard is spells per day thats it. Now the wizard can take (until Bioware sees fit to remove it from the class) Expertise/Improved Expertise. My Wizard at level 20 had a 46 AC with those feats and skills. Especially if the wizard is Elven, high dex and int with some Con...you got a kick ass wizard.

BUT NOOOOO....I see too many mages go the cheesy route to make the most of phastasmal killer and choose gnome...and later on, that gnome...while a very powerful caster is also suspectable to melee.


No reason for casters to whine, they wanna build casters with one thought in mind....to instakill people....then they lack attention in other areas. More than too often mages are too offfensive minded in nature and forgo AC ...An old quote that is still true and applies here. "Defense wins Championships"

[Protoss119]

One reason why we should pick up spells like Mage Armor and Shield while they're still available, as they total up to around +5 AC if you have Robes +#, and with Robes +3, you got a total of +8 AC Bonus, I'm willing to bet. Now that, my friend, is pretty good. Too bad it's temporary.

And yeah, I agree with you with the sizing part of the mage. Who gives a damn if your total HP is low? You've got AC backing you up (with careful attention being paid to Dex). If I were you, I would probably have about 2 offensive spells per spell level (for example, Neg. Energy Burst and Scintillating Sphere at L3) and the rest being defense/negative effect.

However, Half-Orc = Seemingly immune to and gets all the biggest bonuses of KD. You get an AB penalty on how many size categories you are smaller than your target, and the Half-Orc gets an AB bonus on how many categories larger he is than you. That said, with a +# AB bonus, halflings and gnomes are in trouble. Probably the reason why all the halfling players go rogue. (No creativity. :roll: )

[JYAP]

Psst...Half Orcs are Medium sized races. Humans KD just as well...and Dwarves...and Elves...and Half-Elves,which suck...

Why not a Half Orc rogue? To heck with dex,sneak around then get the KD and rape with sneaks.

[Felonious Monk]

There are so many things wrong here. First, Mage Armor + Shield nets you +7 AC by themselves, while with +3 robes you would get a total of +9. That said, mage AC will never compare to fighter AB until they get Auto-Still 3 and/or Epic Mage Armor. Even with DEX 18 (after items/buffs) and +3 gear all around, a mage is looking at a whopping 31 AC at level 20 (32 for gnomes/halflings). A full BAB class with 24 in their primary stat (16 start + 5 level + 3 items) and a +3 weapon is looking at 31 AB easy.

Also, like JYAP said, half-orcs are medium sized creatures and get no bonus to KD that any other medium sized race has. What he failed to mention is that the only AB penalty you ever get for using KD/IKD is -4 and that size doesn't ever affect this. The size bonus/penalty is only applied to the Discipline check and not to the actual attack roll.

Mages have nothing to complain about. They lack in AC and HP but make up for it in damage potential.

<--- Oh, and 400th post.

[Protoss119]

...Oh. Must have miscalculated.

[Felonious Monk]

It happens. :) I was working on a build not too long ago and ended up with a calculated AB of 74. The problem was that I broke it down into naked, gear+long buffs, and gear+all buffs and accidentally had my naked stat bonus on there once and then my buffed stat bonus on there later, skewing the results by about 12. :?

[Dweia]

That's why I try to avoid planning my characters out too much. :P

It's always annoying planning it all right down, then find out at level 39 you actually get that last feat you needed at 40, not 39, and now you're stuck with no epic dodge or whatever.

[Protoss119]

I know what you mean. In a PRC module, I tried making a Rogue/Telflammar Shadow Lord/Outlaw of the Crimson Road. I got most of the feats I needed to make the build work, but - and this is the funny part - I forgot Two-Weapon Fighting (I did get Ambidexterity though) and Toughness as well as a bunch of other feats. X_X