Which class are you best with?

[Protoss119]

I, personally, am best with Ranger, specifically Arcane Archers. It has good AB and good AC (when you get into the later levels, that is) but suffers from a tad low damage. I also favor Finesse Fighters (purely with rapiers, of course) as they have basically the same good sides as Rangers do, but have an opportunity to gain better AC via a shield and have HUGE critical threat ranges, but have to go melee.

[Almuric]

I love wizards! Those are the most fun to play. Especially dwarven wizards. :)

[Protoss119]

The problem with Sorcs is that, while they can cast a hell-load of spells, they don't get many. The problem with wizzies is, while they get a hell-load of spells, they can't cast many.

[Felonious Monk]

How about none of the above? Shifters are my favorite and probably my best class. If we have to chose one of the above I'd probably go with bard/fighter(and RDD of course) or sorc/pally/monk for extra cheese.

[Almuric]

The problem with Sorcs is that, while they can cast a hell-load of spells, they don't get many. The problem with wizzies is, while they get a hell-load of spells, they can't cast many.

If you think that you dont have enough spells to work with by the time you're level 40 and your INT is jacked up like crazy then you just dont know what spells to memorize!

[Protoss119]

How about none of the above? Shifters are my favorite and probably my best class. If we have to chose one of the above I'd probably go with bard/fighter(and RDD of course) or sorc/pally/monk for extra cheese.

Well, I could always edit the post so that Druid/Shifter is included in the Druid slot so it's "Druid or Druid/Shifter". That, or I can create another poll entirely...


If you think that you dont have enough spells to work with by the time you're level 40 and your INT is jacked up like crazy then you just dont know what spells to memorize!

That might be the case. Whenever I play a wizard, I always have a crap-load of good spells. However, the problem is that the spell slots are very limited with the wizard, so it's hard to choose which ones are going in and which ones are going out...and most of them that are going out are solid spells being replaced by excellent ones. (AKA Wierd for Greater Spell Mantle)

Not only that, but because these spell slots are so limited (despite the fact that you may have really jacked up your Int), the number of Greater Spell Mantles you can put in are also extremely limited. Then again, you could always have all Greater Spell Mantles in all L9 spell slots and Greater/Lesser Spell Breaches in the rest. That way, you might just survive a duel with a sorc.

[Almuric]

Well let me shift gears a little, as you're trying to take wizards apart!

You selected the two classes that ruined NWN for PvP (and for PvM as well) dex fighters and Arcane Archers! Once 40 levels were allowed these two classes became too powerful and completely unbalanced. Choose something that you actually have to work at to win!

[Felonious Monk]

A generalist wizard has about as many spells per day as a sorcerer of the same level with an identical casting stat, while a specialist typically has more. It varies by spell level, as sorcs will have an additional casting of level 1-2 spells, an equal amount of level 3-4 spells, and one fewer casting of level 6-9 spells compared to a generalist wizard. The true benefit of being a sorcerer is not having to pick and choose the exact number and type of spells you want to use before each rest. In PvP, the limitation on the number of spells available to a sorc is rather unimportant, as spells that are or may be useful in PvM can be ignored entirely. Wizards still have the best stat spread as they can ignore CHA entirely while sorcs need at least some INT for skills, but the sorc/monk/pally combo makes up for that rather quickly.

As an aside, an Empowered Spell Mantle (13-24 spell levels soaked) is superior to a Greater Spell Mantle (11-22) and occupies the same slot. Never bother memorizing Greater Spell Mantle unless you decided not to take Empower Spell (and you should... always).

[Protoss119]

Well, both of you have a point.
Archers (mainly CSers, in my opinion) could kill crap-loads of potentially good builds. Of course, this depends on the type of Archer; if it's not a stealther, then the character has to strive for levels and survive the wrath of STR fighters with Tower Shields.
I never knew an empowered Spell Mantle was better than Greater Spell Mantle!

[Almuric]

I have learned a tremendous thing about empowered Spell Mantles!

[Felonious Monk]

The mechanics of Empower Spell have made Negative Energy Burst my favorite spell. Well, that, and a few other reasons. :) It scales all the way up to level 40 (the description lies), has a Will save (so it can't be evaded), deals negative damage (not easily resisted), and lowers the STR of everyone in the AoE with no save. Normally, a NEB cast by a level 40 mage will "only" do an average of 44.5 damage, but an Empowered NEB will do ~66.5. Compare that to the average 35 (52.5 empowered) damage from a Fireball, which can be evaded, doesn't lower STR, and can be easily resisted. Flame Arrow also scales up to 40, but it only affects one target and is subject to the same limitations as Fireball in addition to being especially vulnerable to DR.

Imagine an Empowered Mestil's Acid Sheath stacked onto an Empowered Elemental Shield. By level 40 you're looking at anywhere from 222 to 258 damage with each hit (161-189 from Mestil's and 61-69 from ES). You could get another 9-13 from an Empowered Death Armor, but that might be overkill. ;)

[Almuric]

Honestly, NEB is probably one of my least used spells. Guess I need to give it another look.

[Protoss119]

NEB + Ray of Enfeeblement + Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) = The Bane 'o all STR builds.

[Almuric]

Actually, my hated enemy is Dex builds...got any spell combinations for them? (nasty nasty archers disrupting my spells!! )

[Protoss119]

Hmm...might not be the most original combo, but how about Hold Person + Bestow Curse and maybe an Enervation or two? Or better yet, how about Hold Person + Ghoul Touch?

[Felonious Monk]

The problem with AAs is that they tend to have pretty decent saves, with Will typically being the lowest. Still, NEB is good for dropping their STR down to 3 to encumber them. Bigby's can be your best friend, even if nerfed. With only 3 STR, what are the chances of them avoiding a Forceful Hand? Fear is also a very good spell for a necromancer, as the DC and duration tend to be rather nice. Balagarn's Iron Horn spells all but certain doom for any non-STR build, although the STR check is currently bugged in favor of the target. The lack of a save and scaling damage on Ice Storm is nice too.

I would, in order, Iron Horn, NEB, Forceful, then IGMS/Ice Storm/NEB spam to death.

I'm going away for a week. I'll catch up with you guys later.

[Protoss119]

Extended Fear + Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) = Evil. Mweheheheheheheh...:twisted:

[Felonious Monk]

The problem with AAs is that they tend to have pretty decent saves, with Will typically being the lowest. Still, NEB is good for dropping their STR down to 3 to encumber them. Bigby's can be your best friend, even if nerfed. With only 3 STR, what are the chances of them avoiding a Forceful Hand? Fear is also a very good spell for a necromancer, as the DC and duration tend to be rather nice. Balagarn's Iron Horn spells all but certain doom for any non-STR build, although the STR check is currently bugged in favor of the target. The lack of a save and scaling damage on Ice Storm is nice too.

I would, in order, Iron Horn, NEB, Forceful, then IGMS/Ice Storm/NEB spam to death.

I'm going away for a week. I'll catch up with you guys later.


Pay little heed to my last post. My wife was nagging me to get off the computer and finish packing and I had to wrap it up in a hurry. What I would have said, if I had the time, would have gone something like this (assume you will always start invis):

No nerfs: Find the guy using True Seeing and disable him with Bigby's, finish him off with IGMS, Ice Storm, or NEB

Nerfed TS, familiars available: Lay down some DB Fireballs and wait for one to go off. As soon as one trips, lay them low with a Iron Horn, then summon your Fairy or Pseudodragon or Eyeball and let them locate the bastard for you. Pin them down with a Bigby's and let them have it.

Nerfed TS, no summons: Same as above, only instead of using a Bigby's to keep them down until they die, space out your no-save damage spells with more Iron Horns.


For even more fun with familiars, use summon and possess your Fairy Dragon and invis yourself. You will always see them with your TS, and once you do, hit them with the confusion bolt. Catching someone flat-footed with a no-save ranged touch attack is pretty much a gimme, and the confusion will hold them long enough to go back for your wiz and finish them off, or start pummeling them as the familiar.

I'm still out of town at the moment, it's just that I finally got my sister-in-law away from the computer for a few minutes. Catch you guys tomorrow. ;)

[Halfwingseen]

Dex builds... death spells obviously but if dat dont work... flesh to stone is an EVIL EVIL spell indeed Fort save...tend to crush all with epic focus u can get DC upwards of 45 which at lvl 40 with 10 con a fighter gets 38 fort.... so it works on them too hehe + that and then use IGMS IMS MM vamp touch ghoul touch for even lower saves then just contagin ( the disease one ) them and poison and to make em cry.. put the cloud of death aoe under them while petrified )

[Felonious Monk]

Contagion is such a waste of a spell. Even if they fail their save, it takes 24 game hours (or 48 RL minutes) for it to actually cause any ability damage, and even then it requires another save. Disease is worthless for PvP.

And Implosion can get a DC of 48, affects an area, and ignores death immunity.

[Protoss119]

.................................................. ..................................HOLY CRAP.

Must. Get. More. Implosions.

[Halfwingseen]

Contagion is such a waste of a spell. Even if they fail their save, it takes 24 game hours (or 48 RL minutes) for it to actually cause any ability damage, and even then it requires another save. Disease is worthless for PvP.

And Implosion can get a DC of 48, affects an area, and ignores death immunity.

Contagion applies the first ability damage on cast then one when you try to rest contagion has a diseas efor every stat and it stacks most of the diseases are 1d4 or 1d6 ability damage which is a nasty drop in ab/ac or hp or something

ALSO
Infestation of Maggots > rogues and cs'ers One cast and they ( when maximize ) drop by 28 CON and if theyd un have > 31 CON they die. die=D.E.A.D D.E.A.D.= bad

[Almuric]

I think you made that spell up!

[Halfwingseen]

you do? its a lvl 3 druid spell
it causes an infestation of disease on touch ( dun need to make touch attack just be in close range ) a fort save to be inected and 1d4 con damage every round for 7 rounds when maximized its 28 CON

[Almuric]

That sounds like something completely out of balance. A 3rd level spell that does 28 CON damage would kill a level 30 fighter.

[Protoss119]

Trog...how long has it been since you've played NWN?

And there's a Fort save to negate each CON damage. For example, if you fail the initial save, you get a new save to negate both the CON damage & the spell.

[Almuric]

I played last night! :P

I guess most people would make the save for this spell.

[Protoss119]

Indeed, they would. Rarely people die of CON loss unless it's like 6 or something.

[Halfwingseen]

You die of con when you hit 3
ALSO th DC for a lvl 15 druid on EB i hit 28 DC
and its a lvl 3 spell but it has to be MAXIMIZED for it do deal the full 28 points anyway ( also if its maximized you lose 2 fort every round so your saves get lower and lower and you can finish them off ( if they live or if they make the save ) with a finger of death ( druids get this ) Also if you pass the svae you keep the ability damage until you rest completely ( or until the caster rests ) also a lvl 30 fighter would lose 420 HP by the maximized spell easily making this spell an effective tool ALSO its one of the few necromantic spells for a druid so getting greater focus ( like i did for the 28 DC ) only affects this and finger of death

[Almuric]

sounds like this is one of those potentially powerful but rarely used spells.

[Halfwingseen]

My caster druids ( very very very very very very deadly ) use it to kill its not used often because a simple shadow shield or high fort ruins it but its effective as shit if u get lucky with the first save -2 hp/lvl isnt anything to scoff at

[Protoss119]

I've seen it being used a lot. It IS deadly. At one point, it even killed Caradril.

[Almuric]

Well, guess I better start using my cleric again! He'd cast resists so it wouldnt matter. :P

[Halfwingseen]

vs cleric a druid = Dispel flame strike dispel inferno flame strike flame strike ^^
That wouldnt kill him but you get the idea druids anti casters and anti melee and anti archer if that archer has low will only thing u have rouble with is DD just because massive hp makes one need to fight when you run out of spells

[Almuric]

I dont care what you say, a cleric > druid in PvP. :)

[JYAP]

A lot>Druids in PvP. Their spellset is for PvM and needs buffing in some areas and massive nerfing in others.

Disease still sucks. Most servers don't let you rest. In EB,it's somewhat useful if you're one of two or three on,but that's it.

[Protoss119]

Someone on EW said that Druids could counter everything, but I countered that theory with Mord's Disjunction & FoD.

[Halfwingseen]

-.- that was me protoss XD but yea mortz disjuct is a lvl 9 spell if u mortz disjunct the druid will b able to SoV spam ur ass druids get FoD and amazing saves ( my human caster gets 24 fort at lvl 17 24 will also and a mere 18 reflex )



And Trog I Challange your cleric vs my druid ^^

[Protoss119]

O_O...

~rewinds time to when you got on NWN yesterday~

Hey Halfwing.

Yeah, but Sorcs can use Ice Storm outside the range of SoV.

[Halfwingseen]

And Druids can Use SR to get 10+lvl+wis mod SR... try getting through ( at lvl 17 SoV time ) 33 SR yea...tough then i can just use premo to block the blud damage and vine mine -Camo to cause spell failure on your ass when i get in FoD or maggot range ( or just cast inferno then call lighting maximized for 90 damage a pop OR flame strike for 120 damage or firestorm for 24d6 damage )
Also note Drown owns

[JYAP]

Drown owning has been such a obvious fact,really.

[Almuric]

Sounds like I need to make my cleric. I'll get right on that.

[Halfwingseen]

muahahahaha ^^ see you dead on eb trog

[JYAP]

Could you find a model changer and put it on EB2 Trog? Those are fun. ^_^

[Almuric]

what the heck is a model changer?

[Protoss119]

Appearance changer - n. An NPC that, should the PC converse with him, can change the PC's appearance.

[Halfwingseen]

Basically the thing where you can make yourself look like u have tails when you dun have to wings ( various types ) or make urself a zombie umber hulk golem ect

[JYAP]

You know you want it Trog. You know you want it...

[Almuric]

Forget it! :)

[JYAP]

(waves hand)
You will put a model changer in EB2.

[Protoss119]

Awww! Why not? EB could use a little spazzing up anyway. It's awesome already, but still.

[JYAP]

(waves hand)
You will put in spawns and make invading the fortress worthwhile.

[Dweia]

what the heck is a model changer?

Something which uses SetCreatureAppearanceType, SetCreatureWingType or SetCreatureTailType to set the appearance, wing and/or tail model.

e.g. The following will randomly turn opc into a female drow, give them angel wings, or give them a demon tail.

if(d3() == 1)
{
SetCreatureAppearanceType(opc, APPEARANCE_TYPE_DROW_FEMALE_1);
SetCreatureWingType(CREATURE_WING_TYPE_NONE, opc);
SetCreatureTailType(CREATURE_TAIL_TYPE_NONE, opc);
}
else if(d2() == 1)
{
SetCreatureAppearanceType(opc, APPEARANCE_TYPE_HALFLING);
SetCreatureTailType(CREATURE_TAIL_TYPE_BONE, opc);
SetCreatureWingType(CREATURE_WING_TYPE_NONE, opc);
}
else
{
SetCreatureAppearanceType(opc, APPEARANCE_TYPE_HALFLING);
SetCreatureWingType(CREATURE_WING_TYPE_ANGEL, opc);
SetCreatureTailType(CREATURE_TAIL_TYPE_NONE, opc);
}

My god, it's been months since I even touched Neverwinter Nights.

*edit*And on the original question. I'm rather fond of wizards, simply because no one likes them, so I want to try to prove people wrong, and bards.

[JYAP]

Wizards FTW. All Sorcs have is a lot of spells. The almighty Wizards get scrolls and DC boosts.

Speaking of which,put some scrolls in the Elite and Epic shops,Al. Make them worthwhile.

[Almuric]

OMG, it's DWEIA!

You going to get NWN2?

[Dweia]

Probably eventually I'll get NWN2.
I've been rather busy for a while, as well as having gone of gaming in general.

No, I won't be getting less busy before maybe halfway through november, at which point, having nothing I need to worry about for a while, I may make a comeback in NWN2.

*edit*The time I have't been busy with work/study I've mainly spent trying to learn some new languages. Not only esoteric stuff like Befunge, but stuff that will destroy your brain if you try to learn it (namely Perl), and some tamer stuff like Python.*

[Almuric]

sounds like fun?

[JYAP]

If that's fun,then hell's paradise. >_>

[Dweia]

And lots of time collection odds and ends. I am accumulating an impressive store of knowledge, and electronically storeable items, I scare myself sometimes.

And now for some Befunge. Cookies for anyone who can tell me what the two of them do.

>52+8*66++,83+9*2-,1v3
vD#+1*+91+91*8<>+, #9v
#>+*,91+91+1+4^^+++<91
W^ 948,+*+9184,<>*+^99
>,,919++4*,82+v*^999<+
v,-1:+5,:+*+28<8v*+19<
>,@Hello World!4>1v789
32#+**2352*6-+,^,+<333


v v >+, v v D v+<
1 : 3 4 W v< ^<
1 : , + @ 2 1
1 : , 4 , * 9
# # : # - 3 ,
>+7*^ :>1-2 ^ 1 * *
2 2 + * + 4 4
+ + 6 , 1 2 +
2 , , + + * *
+ 1 - , ^ < >^
^ > ^^*8< >9+,6 6++, 63^

And you must agree that compared to perl that's a wonder of legibility.

The following outputs "just another perl hacker".

not exp log srand xor s qq qx xor
s x x length uc ord and print chr
ord for qw q join use sub tied qx
xor eval xor print qq q q xor int
eval lc q m cos and print chr ord
for qw y abs ne open tied hex exp
ref y m xor scalar srand print qq
q q xor int eval lc qq y sqrt cos
and print chr ord for qw x printf
each return local x y or print qq
s s and eval q s undef or oct xor
time xor ref print chr int ord lc
foreach qw y hex alarm chdir kill
exec return y s gt sin sort split

The top two were written by me, the bottom one I nicked from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_another_Perl_hacker

[Protoss119]

~head asplodes~

[Almuric]

~head asplodes~

ditto! :shock:

[Dweia]

Pah, weaklings. Free your minds from the confines of normalcy.

[Protoss119]

Pompous ant! You underestimate my intellect!

~insert drama here~

[Halfwingseen]

I understood about half of that.
Not enough to understand what it does but enough to not be so confused.

(I'm sorry,the grammar was so bad I just HAD to fix it.)

[JYAP]

Right then. We can all agree codes are evil.

[Protoss119]

Yes. They wipe the important stuff from your brain and replace it with code that might fill up just 1 flashy-effects trigger. XD

[Dweia]

But the flashy effects trigger stuff is the important stuff...

Or at least that's all I get when I look at the important file in my brain.

[Almuric]

So what class do you think you'll be best with in NWN2?

[Protoss119]

Except I mean the important important, non-NWN important stuff.

WARLOCKS! GOGO DARK ARCHONS!

[Halfwingseen]

IM parital to the now overpowered frenzied berserker/barbarian massive damage > warlock abilities

[JYAP]

Yes yes,that's fine and all till a mage blows your head off with a level 9 spell in your weak save.

[Halfwingseen]

JYAP i dont think you understand the frenzied berserker class...
DOUBLE damage in frenzy HUGE SAVES + 10 con + 10 str + 5 will + 5 reflex
then the fact at lvl 9 ( which if i remember correctly should b the first tim eu get frenzied berserker if its lvl 6 then omg its imba just baded on life )
when u get lvl 9 spells ( 17 ) frenzied berserker reached its full power mages are powerless unless they manage to get off 4-5 120+ damage spells b4 the frenzied berserker gets in range for a kd frenzied berserker can finish off asmage in 1 round without a crit...with a crit.. ONE ATTACK even if you have premo GSS and SS ( -100 damage )

*edit* then with luck of heroes/iron will/great fort/reflexes ) you get another + 5 to all saves + 10 to all saves then just add items and ur immune to ur dc's :/

[Almuric]

That sounds like a few too many bonuses for this "Beserker" class. You sure you got your numbers right?

[Halfwingseen]

Your right al i lied its + 8 str/con for the rage and the wills save is + 4 reflex is 3 and fort bonus is 4 from con ^^ but they do get double damage for up to like 2 rounds at a time once per day per 3 lvls of the class ( max of 4 ( lvl 1/4/7/10)
also if i read correctly you lose the - to ac penalty with barb rage
but barbarians also get usually high reflex for a tank class so saves are no problem ( cept will but the iron will feat along with luck o heroes makes u get +9 total to will without items and with 10 wis )

[JYAP]

The only problem is all the attention he'll attract. And with attention comes maximized Ice Storms.

[Halfwingseen]

maximized ice storms that a lvl 7 spells so wizqards get roughly 5 of them at lvl 20 and thats if you want to skimp out of premo and other buffs :/ so lets see thats 3d8 + 5d8 so 64 damage 5 times :/ 320 damage and thats assuming i let you cast it five times with me interrupting you once

then lets compute my HP
20d12 =240 hp with 20 con thats 340 hp with rage thats 420 HP
add a brawler belt ( -/10 blud ) and ele resist coldand thats 49 damage a storm for.. 245 damage in 2.5 rounds roughly 100 damage a round

Then my 2-8+9(22str)+6(IPA)+6(rage)X2(frenzy)
so (46-58) a thwack with 4 attakcs a round for... 196-232 a round in damage
and that assuming i dont get a crit

a crit would deal 196-232 damage on its own

ALSO in the same 2.5 rounds
i deal 490-580 damage :/ 245-320<490-580 and that if i dont crit :/

My calculations are on giving the wizard permahaste and nothing else at lvl 20
and gving the berserker a normal scythe with a brawler belt and nothing else ( no haste )

[Almuric]

I think you're using stats from the 3.5 rules, not NWN 2 stats.

[JYAP]

I've been wondering how he comes up with these whack calculations. I just can't figure out the problem myself.

[Almuric]

How does everyone feel about all the new prestige classes?

[Halfwingseen]

jyap


in nwn 2 imp power attack is -6/+6 not 10

also a scythe is 2d4 damage
so 2-8
and with 22 str you get + 6 to damage ( +9 with 2handed weapon )

and with the 8 more str form rage ( 6 more damage with 2 handed )
AND the 6 from imp power attack
then everything doubled for the frenzy from the prestiege class
thats the damage per attack
then 4 attacks a round at lvl 20
then a crit is 4X the damage of 1 attack because its a scythe

[JYAP]

I knew it was too good to be true. It may get giant criticals that implode people on contact,but that's only if it hits. Which is bloody unlikely.

[Protoss119]

Eh? Learned on Gamebanshee that the Blackguard gets an Aura of Despair in NWN2 which, as you know, decreases enemy saves by 2. I can see some Fighter LX/Blackguard L3 builds in the future. I think.

[Almuric]

Saves arent really that big a deal unless your doing something to your opponent that requires saving. Physical combat like the kind a fighter typically performs doesnt involve many saves.

[Protoss119]

But say a mage walks up to a guy fighting a Blackguard...

Oh, and Monk/Blackguard 3 FTW. Saves are a big deal if you're a monk (Stunning Fist).

[Halfwingseen]

Cleric/warpriest/BG/monk is very effective PVP in nwn2 and warpriest is the master of auras ( and with a cleric domain you can get toughness and aura of courage free ( the immunity to fear aura )

[Protoss119]

Shweeeeeet!

~goes into the future~

~steals a NWN2 game from Santa~

Santa: Hey! I worked hard for that!

[Almuric]

I've sooooo not looked into multiclassing in nwn2. being able to do 4 classes is really gonna mess with my head.

[Halfwingseen]

yea its most effective with wiz/pm/eldrich knight/fighter(1)
because you get lvl 9 wizard spells imba AC and around 15 or 16 BAB
^^ can you say pwn!