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Bushwacker
06-26-2006, 12:15 PM
This was sent to me via e-mail by someone I trust and is a fellow vet. So after you read it let me know what you think. Personaly I don't think she should be Honored for shit. In fact I think she should of been tried for treason and punished accordingly. Keep in mind this is all true stuff here and documented.

Subject: Traitor to be honored
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> GOD BLESS THE U.S.A., OUR TROOPS AND OUR PEOPLE Mary A. Jones
> YOU NEVER FORWARDED ANYTHING IN YOU LIFE FORWARD THIS SO THAT
> EVERYONE WILL KNOW!!!!!!.......
>
> She really was a traitor
>
> A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
> KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA
>
>
>
> This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
> not remember, and didn't have to bear the
> burden that our fathers, mothers and older
> brothers and sisters had to bear.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
> "100 Women of the Century."
>
> BY BARBRA WALTERS
>
>
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
> countless others have never known how Ms.
> Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
> but specific men who served and sacrificed
> during Vietnam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot
>
>
>
>
>
> The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.
>
>
>
>
>
> In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
> Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison
> the "Hanoi Hilton."
>
>
>
>
>
> Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
> cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
> ordered to describe for a visiting American
> "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
> treatment" he'd received.
>
>
>
>
>
> He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
> dragged away.
> During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
> on to the camp Commandant's feet, which
> sent that officer berserk.
>
>
>
>
>
> In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from
> double vision (which permanently ended his
> flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
> application of a wooden baton.
>
>
>
>
>
> From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
> 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
> "Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his
> family only knew he was "missing in action".
> His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
> His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
> clothed routine in preparation for a
> "peace delegation" visit.
> They, however, had time and devised a plan to
> get word to the world that they were alive
> and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny
> piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
> on it, in the palm of his hand.
>
>
>
>
>
> When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
> cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
> man's hand and asking little encouraging
> snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
> babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane
> treatment from your benevolent captors?"
> Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
> palmed her their sliver of paper.
> She took them all without missing a beat. At the
> end of the line and once the camera stopped
> rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
> she turned to the officer in charge and handed
> him all the little pieces of paper.
>
>
>
>
>
> Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
> Colonel Carrigan was almost number four
> but he survived, which is the only reason we
> know of her actions that day.
>
>
>
>
> We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
>
>
>
>
>
> When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by
> the camp communist political officer if I would
> be willing to meet with her.
>
>
>
>
>
> I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
> treatment we POWs received... and how
> different it was from the treatment purported by
> the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
> "humane and lenient."
>
>
>
>
>
> Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
> floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
> with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
> and beaten with a bamboo cane.
>
>
>
>
>
> These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
> someone who should be honored as part
> of "100 Years of Great Women."
> Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"
> should never include a traitor whose hands are
> covered with the blood of so many patriots.
>
>
>
>
>
> There are few things I have strong visceral
> reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
> blatant treason, is one of them.
> Please take the time to forward to as many
> people as you possibly can.
> It will eventually end up on her computer and
> she needs to know that we will never forget.
> RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
> 716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of
> Maintenance
> DSN: 875-6431
> COMM: 883-6343
>
>
>
>
>
> PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO
> EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF
> ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER
> STATUS WILL CHANGE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> GOD BLESS AMERICA

Almuric
06-26-2006, 01:23 PM
That's horrible. I had no idea she was going to be honored for anything, didnt think there was much to talk about before reading this. Now I'm going to have to do some web searches on this topic.

Darakian
06-26-2006, 03:30 PM
Hmmmm well that email you got seems to be a bit one sided and I would like to know more about that forced talking part (can't find anything else about it online). Blame that on my scepticism if you must :P That aside I would hardly call her a traitor for simply acting as she felt was right (regardless of others agreement). So far as I can tell she did not do anything I would personally call traitorus (killing, destruction, subvertment, etc...). Also being ranked in the top 100 women is rather meaningless as I see it, no prize, no privillage, no anything from it.

Bushwacker
06-26-2006, 05:14 PM
I would hardly call her a traitor for simply acting as she felt was right (regardless of others agreement). So far as I can tell she did not do anything I would personally call traitorus

Are you serious?
She turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper. You know the ones with ssn numbers they gave her. OMFG did you read the whole thing. You say she didn’t kill anyone. Bullshit...Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Let me ask you something. What if you were one of those guys, think you would be saying what you are right now. Let me ask you another question. Are you an American. Born here, not from some other country? And this isn’t really one sided. Shit man this stuff was on the freaking history channel. Not that exact moment in time, but plenty of footage and documentation showing her support for the enemies.

Protoss119
06-26-2006, 07:49 PM
The one reason I don't believe this is the part where it tells you to send this to as many people as you can. If it eventually lands in her inbox, why not send it into her inbox right away? I mean, sheesh, no point in waiting for it to get in there.

But I stand unhindered in my disbelief of this email message.

Bushwacker
06-26-2006, 08:49 PM
The one reason I don't believe this is the part where it tells you to send this to as many people as you can. If it eventually lands in her inbox, why not send it into her inbox right away? I mean, sheesh, no point in waiting for it to get in there.

But I stand unhindered in my disbelief of this email message.

You know what I went and did? Silly me, I went out and did some research and found some very interesting reading. Protoss you are partly correct, but theres alot more to it than that. Check out this link http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
shit man I knew I should of researched this before posting. I had a little chat with my friend and chain letters about five mins ago. Still she did some bad shit just not all that was said.

Protoss119
06-27-2006, 02:46 PM
Ah, it's not your fault. Must have been an error with the original e-mail (the very very very very very very very very very very first one).

But you're right; she's a baddie.

Almuric
06-27-2006, 03:12 PM
what's really funny....she was honored in 1999....so how are we gonna stop it?

Darakian
06-27-2006, 03:58 PM
@ Trog
That made me lol

@ bush
Well she was a good deal before my time so I have the filter of history to look back through. Maybe she did lie about the treatment, maybe she was shown some POWs that were treated fairly, maybe the soilders did lie. Whatever it was I doubt there will ever be a clear answer in the history books. Thus I believe she is protected by the "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Anyway I can't be one to say what happened but I will say that no one should be guilty without proof of guilt.

Bushwacker
06-29-2006, 01:02 PM
@ Trog
That made me lol

@ bush
Well she was a good deal before my time so I have the filter of history to look back through. Maybe she did lie about the treatment, maybe she was shown some POWs that were treated fairly, maybe the soilders did lie. Whatever it was I doubt there will ever be a clear answer in the history books. Thus I believe she is protected by the "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Anyway I can't be one to say what happened but I will say that no one should be guilty without proof of guilt.

She's not innocent...she's a freaking ahole for even saying the crap she said and all the other crap she did.

Darakian
06-29-2006, 05:05 PM
Maybe so, however, people have the right to be aholes. All I'm saying is that I personally do not see the evidence of guilt. I'm not trying to say she's some nice person or anything, just that she is neutral in my perspective.

Bushwacker
06-30-2006, 09:12 AM
Darkian>> Hmmmm well that email you got seems to be a bit one sided...

Most facts are. Claiming that 2 + 2 = 4 instead of 5 is certainly "one-sided";
it also happens to be true. The "one-sidedness" of an issue or event is
completely irrelevant; the question is, IS IT TRUE??

Darkian>> ...and I would like to know more about that forced talking part
Darkian>> (can't find anything else about it online).

You didn't look very hard. The tortures and beatings of POWs by the Viet
Cong are so well-documented as to render this comment unbelievable.
Try this link to a website authored by Mike McGrath (President of NAM-POWs.
POW 30 June 67 to 4 march 73. ( mmcgrath@iex.net )) for example:

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/hanoijan.htm

While debunking the myth about the slips of paper, he also makes it clear
that the tortures and beatings of POWs are facts of reality:

"Bottom line: Who are these guys who pretend to know who the POWs are,
what we are, how we think and thought, how we conducted ourselves, what
we said, what we did, or why we did whatever. There are over 50 books
written by or about us which pretty much detail our ordeal. For book list, see
our web site at: ( www.eos.net/rrva/nampow/nampows.html ) If that isn't
enough, please contact us personally and get the straight story. Over 280
of our e-mail addresses are on the NAM-POW web site. We also list the
300 or so Phony POWs on the Hall of Shame. But please don't attribute
anything to us that is not verified. Thanks. Mike For those with a genuine
interest to find out about us, I suggest you get a very recently released
book, 700 pages of hard hitting researched reality, "Honor Bound," by
Frederick Kiley and Stuart Rochester (recently nominated for a Pulitzer
for this work). This by far is the most comprehensive work ever done on
our ordeal. Do you want to find out the truth about the Cuban Program, the
torture, the brutality, etc. Just pick up your phone and call the Naval Institute
at: 1-800-233-8764. Read this book first, then we'll talk to you about real
POW experiences in Hanoi... not false stories of Hanoi."

Further links abound, and are unfindable only through intellectual laziness.

Darkian>> Blame that on my scepticism if you must...

Scepticism in the face of subjectivism is good. Scepticism in the face of
clearly documented evidence, however, is something else entirely: it is a
complete suspension of judgment, a refusal to recognize the facts of reality,
and only punishes the good while rewarding the evil. Those who don't stand
up for the truth stand for nothing and ARE nothing.

Hanoi Jane's actions in promoting the Viet Cong--our enemy at the time--
are clearly documented: photographs of her sitting on top of anti-aircraft
artillery batteries, for example, or her radio broadcast from North Vietnam.
See this links for further information:


http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda#.22Hanoi_Jane.22

Darkian>> That aside I would hardly call her a traitor for simply acting as she
Darkian>> felt was right (regardless of others agreement)...

Irrelevant. Actions are traitorous due to whether or not they promote the ends
of the enemy, not as a function of someone's belief system. Benedict Arnold's
actions in revealing Revolutionary troop movements to the enemy are most
definitely traitorous; what his beliefs about the war were doesn't mean a damn
thing.

Darkian>> ...So far as I can tell she did not do anything I would personally call
Darkian>> traitorus (killing, destruction, subvertment, etc...).

Really? How about this:
"Fonda visited Hanoi in July 1972. She is credited with publicly exposing
Richard Nixon's potential strategy of bombing the dikes in Vietnam."
(Wikipedia link)

To reveal information in regard to war strategy to the enemy certainly ranks as
"traitorous" in my opinion.

Darkian>> Well she was a good deal before my time so I have the filter of
Darkian>> history to look back through. Maybe she did lie about the treatment,
Darkian>> maybe she was shown some POWs that were treated fairly, maybe
Darkian>> the soilders did lie. Whatever it was I doubt there will ever be a clear
Darkian>> answer in the history books.

The history is actually quite clear, unless you want to claim that your eyeballs
can't see and your ears can't hear. Jane Fonda herself, in 1988, said the
following:

"I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but
to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen
because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the
war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm
very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families.
[...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun,
which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many
soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly
have done. It was just thoughtless." (Wikipedia)

Bush> She's not innocent...she's a freaking ahole for even saying the crap she
Bush> said and all the other crap she did.

Darkian>> Maybe so, however, people have the right to be aholes.

Sure. But they DON'T have the right to subvert our military actions in time of
war, nor do they have the right to meet with the enemy and take photo-shoots
on the anti-aircraft guns that are busy shooting down our soldiers. Nor spew
out propaganda on their radio stations. Lord Haw-Haw and Tokyo Rose were
both--properly--convicted of treason for engaging in these kinds of activities
during previous wars.

Darkian>> All I'm saying is that I personally do not see the evidence of guilt.

Open your eyes and ears and quit whitewashing evil. That would be the proper and humane thing to do...

Darakian
07-01-2006, 08:47 PM
Who ever said I was whitewashing? All I'm doing is stating that I am no athourity to judge and that I have not done the proper research to give a valid judgement. Frankly I really don't have the motivation to do the research either as all oif this is done with and the only contemporary subject involving fonda is a "100 best women" list as rated by some random news host. Not really my area of interest. If it makes you feel better I am not trying to dismiss your argument or trying to say you are wrong. All I am doing it saying that I need to do my own research before I come to a decision.

JYAP
07-24-2006, 08:49 AM
Erm,Darakian,you might wanna stop arguing with the facts.

Man,I hate getting to these topics late,but since it's kinda recent,I just can't stand these freakin idiots that give away our battleplans to the enemy because they don't like Bush/don't like Republicans/don't like war even though it goes on longer because of this/are freakin liberal media morons. All these stupid anti-war protests earned us our first and hopefully only loss in Vietnam. Had morons like John Kerry and his goons shut their yaps,our forces could easily break through as Vietnam was suffering under something similiar to what we were and ready to fall apart.

And I agree. Honoring a lady that exposed one of our vital attack plans and got POWs killed is like honoring the New York Times for exposing Bush's plan to eavesdrop on all TERRORIST connections. Man,our country is sucky in ways like this. I wonder what they do in Canada...

Protoss119
07-24-2006, 09:23 AM
Exactly. While I'm glad to be free, I don't want to live in a country run by idiots. Then again, I don't want to live in a country run by oppressive imperialists, so...